well said. but all throughout history some people indeed had made changes, they galvanized chaos.. and caused the fall of many empires, and after those falls new and monstrous empires rose again; more vicious than before.... it just an eternal recurrence.... history after history... sometimes its really tiring... there isnt any hope for the flowers any more because everything is all ready polluted... the next thing to do is to surrender...

nowadays, beggars who ask end up having something they dont ideally want but have to be endured.... session road is a living testament to this...

one thing more, do we really have to sweat it out? 

Why surrender when you haven't even fought? When they stepped on your foot, the least thing you can do is express pain. It's either you asked them to quit stepping on your foot or bear the pain forever. It is not asking too much, but only for the one that you deserve. Empires fall and empires rise, that's a concrete example of nature's law on survival of the fittest and elimination of the unfit. It's nature's way of improving itself. Without problems and conflicts, brilliant things and ideas I think will not shed light.

If everything is polluted, I think the proper way to do is minimize or avoid polluting, not add more to the pollution.

We don't literally sweat it out, we have our ups and downs... It is still paid work though. It is not the best, neither is it the worst but one thing is certain, every work deserves a just treatment and compensation.

That i agree... it's just that everything seems to have lost color already.. some soldiers in battle  who had fought and perished may not have died in vain... still,    they died.    It's futitlity.  The law of survival of fittest is a fallacy for in the long no one really wins, all will be losers.

Tell us a brilliant thing and idea that havent had any set back in it... almost everything is flawed... perfection is  just in the mind, right? and so is idealism.

with new inventions of antipollutants, another rubbish is expelled... no way we could stop it...

You said every work deserves a just treatment and compensation but what defines it?

is it the quality of the work produced? the effort exerted? the approval of the boss? or self-satisfisfaction?

That's not as simple as it seems, is it?
           

Soldiers do die in battle, and so is everyone else... sometime in the future. If you will die would you rather die in vain? We are the masters of our fate... We must seize and take control of it. The fact of fighting is not losing hope. That in this pathetic existence you aim to be better. I think it's better to die fighting in a losing battle than to live a loser's life.

I agree when you said that perfection and idealism is only in the mind. That is an awful truth. But why did it not die when indeed everybody knows this fact? Why do people still entertain this falsity? Maybe it is because they believe that there is something better than living a life that you don't want to live. They don't actually aim for perfection or idealism but for improvement and self satisfaction. If you know that you already reached the ceiling why go up any further? It's pointless right? But if you don't put any ceiling then the progress is limitless.

Nothing is simple in this cycle we call life. Everyhting is more complex than what they already appear to be. What defines just treatment and compensation? We do... together with them. Not only us, not only them, but both parties...

"I agree when you said that perfection and idealism is only in the mind. That is an awful truth. But why did it not die when indeed everybody knows this fact? Why do people still entertain this falsity?
Maybe it is because....
they believe that there is something better than living a life that you don't want to live...."

Yeah, maybe.  BUt you know that men by nature have always been insatiable... they can never be satisfied.. give them pizza and they clamor for spaghetti, then chicken, then more and more.. an endless journey toward something they think they can, but couldnt.

"If you know that you already reached the ceiling why go up any further? It's pointless right? But if you don't put any ceiling then the progress is limitless.

We already reached the ceiling. , some of us even ventured to go up ove the roof... but the sky is

too high... its beyond our reach anymore...  Let's just step our feet on the ground... its safer.

Insatiability is one human characteristic that brought us to where we are now... If our uncestors are just contented with what they have... then progress and development will be at a stand still.

My point here is not asking too much but only what people deserve... The non-existing ceiling I'm talking about is human's improvement and not going overboard... In the first place if you go overboard then there will be a good reason for your employer to exterminate you... But if you just work within your circle then I think it is still proper.

It's improvement and the idea to be better not being an airhead...

8)

ok... so  what do you think deserves all of us? and im not saying only you... all of us...
and please be specific...   

a raise? 

how much?

Well, Ive not had a raise when I reached the so-called maximum ceiling rate, did you? 
The alleged old ones had theirs before (as they claimed) because according to them the institute was in its glory days during the time they were only few.
Since then, their rate hasnt moved further so far... This could easily be  detected (by way of arithmetic) from the tax rate which glares on us whenever they post it ..
Some of the old timers' tax rate is just an equivalent of the regular rate of the new ones...
now, isnt that remarkable?     

Laws could be bent according to its server... articles could be quoted everytime to suit a certain purpose but it could only turn into a vicious cycle of plain dish we have to eat in order to live.

And that's the way the cookie crumbles...it's the way it is... this is how reality bites... painful though.


Are you suggesting  that we receive some  benefit or something? what?

if it's feasible and fair enough to the admin, we could air it out.

(sigh)

we are on the same boat, bro...  if the boat capsizes, we all drown... 

it's a deep mean creek out there...    


 

We're not dwelling on something specific here right? I don't really know how you came up to those conclusions... Maybe we are not travelling in the same wavelength...

Steer that boat so you will not end up in a place where you never intended to be...

Thanks for correcting my typos by the way...  : O0 Good job... Do I owe you money now? hehehe

"We're not dwelling on something specific here right? "

Yeah, you're right...this is just idealism in action..

"I don't really know how you came up to those conclusions..."

Lily  este really? (sorry my korean accent is sufacing) 

"Maybe we are not travelling in the same wavelength..
Steer that boat so you will not end up in a place where you never intended to be..."

guide it then... 

"Thanks for correcting my typos by the way...    Good job..."

No sweat!

"Do I owe you money now?"

"70 php, plus coffee, and 1 pack of marlboro green/or lights

 

"70 php, plus coffee, and 1 pack of marlboro green/or lights"

that's way unconscionable... I can let my nephew check it and it can cost only 3 pesos worth of candy. hehehe  ^-^

why not deal in specifics? i think we need some more information actually.  i just heard a fact today that i found interesting. i had thought before that beci was a philippine company that advertised in korea. now i found out its actually a korean company with a 'branch' here in the philippines. is it possible that our complaints are going to the wrong people? if we complain to the local management, do they have the power? where is the line between employees and mgt? maybe the local powers hear the complaints and perhaps even share some of the ideas? maybe?

also i found this quite interesting, especially given the large influence of the catholic church in this country. if you click the link for the encyclical "on human work" pay attention to section IV, especially part 17.

www.catholiclabor.org/encyclicals/papal-encyclicals.htm

I see... perhaps, you could invite your nephew then to join and respond to threads... that would be fun...

am i sure its a fact? i believe the source i heard it from. next thing you know you'll be debating what is a fact.

please don't correct my grammar (spelling is a different story). as i said i had thought beci was a filippine company that advertised in korea. here i use the active voice to show that beci is the actor. beci advertised. if you try to change it to the passive voice, it doesn't carry the same emphasis on beci as the actor. the word "that" is actually optional in "i found out it's actually...", based on everyday conversational english as practiced.

as for my the business permits and such, i would like to use sony as my example. its a japanese company with affliliate companies all over the world. they have the appropriate business permits and licenses for each of those countries. but they are still a japanese company.

lost my faith in what? management? i have faith that management at beci are all good and decent people. i'm just curious if they are the people who are able to fix the situation. if not, then we are dealing with the situation of an "indirect employer" as described by the late pontiff, pope john paul II.

you seem very certain about their power. how are you so certain?

i don't mean "what is the dividing line between...." i mean "where is the line between....", just as i said it. if you ask "what is the dividing line.." then the answer would be, "the dividing line is a metaphorical distinction between two different intangible things". but like i said, i'm interested in where that distinction exists.

i'm also not commenting on things being relayed or not relayed. i'm trying to join a discussion about how to change what is being relayed. some people feel like what is being relayed is s#!t. and i think it would be nice for these people to have a voice so they could try to avoid being shat on. unfortunately the discussion is being side-tracked with irrelevant issues.

as an aside, if you're trying to correct me with formal "by the book" english, you should refrain from using the word "ain't". "ain't" isn't a word - formally. but personally i recognize it as being acceptable in everyday conversational english.

who are the right people? what sort of information do you suggest i ask for? how can i get it?

as for your final question, i think i answered that above with regard to the indirect employer.

if you seek clarification or further discussion, please don't hesitate to ask during lunch or between classes. or post another needlessly long reply here. but please lets refrain from language issues. don't we do that enough during the day? i think here the purpose of communication is a message being encoded and decoded so that both sender and receiver understand the same meaning. let's let bygones be bygones, and let baygon kill cockroaches. 

"am i sure its a fact? i believe the source i heard it from. next thing you know you'll be debating what is a fact. "

Of course not, I wont be debating a fact, it's always subject to relativity.  I'm questioning the credibility of your source unless they come straight from the horse's mouth. And I mean "the".            

please don't correct my grammar (spelling is a different story). as i said i had thought beci was a filippine company that advertised in korea.

considering this is a language institute, we can't take this for granted... If you use "advertise" in the active voice, it needs a direct object.  So you think that BECI was a "filippine" company that advertised [what?] in korea...


'..the word "that" is actually optional in "i found out it's actually..."

ok, then by way of interpolating it, your sentence would sound like this:   i had thought beci was a filippine company  i found out it's actually  advertised in korea. It's convoluted so it needs a conjunction "and".

"...based on everyday conversational english as practiced."  Believe me, ive read and understood more books than in any bibiliography of  the book you've quoted.    

"...as for my the business permits (which business of yours?) and such, i would like to use sony as my example. its a japanese company with affliliate companies all over the world. they have the appropriate business permits and licenses for each of those countries. but they are still a japanese company. "

Philippine Law and business documentation clearly indicate the nature of our employer. It's beyond reasonable doubt.  Ours   is authentically Philippine-owned as registered. In virtue, the business ownership system is partnership.

lost my faith in what? management? i have faith that management at beci are all good and decent people. i'm just curious if they are the people who are able to fix the situation.

What situation?

if not, then we are dealing with the situation of an "indirect employer" as described by the late pontiff, pope john paul II.

Hypothetically,  if we might be dealing with an indirect employer, and then?

you seem very certain about their power. how are you so certain?

I don't seem certain. I am certain. I am a living star witness .   8)

i don't mean "what is the dividing line between...." i mean "where is the line between....", just as i said it. if you ask "what is the dividing line.." then the answer would be, "the dividing line is a metaphorical distinction between two different intangible things". but like i said, i'm interested in where that distinction exists.

You said it. It's intangible. To concretize, it's as thin as a razor's edge. The distinction exists where responsible democracy ends and mob rule starts.

i'm also not commenting on things being relayed or not relayed. i'm trying to join a discussion about how to change what is being relayed.

We could only change what is relayed if what is (seemingly) relayed isnt really what was (actually) relayed. If this is your point, I stand with you.  

some people feel like what is being relayed is s#!t . and i think it would be nice for these people to have a voice so they could try to avoid being shat on. unfortunately the discussion is being side-tracked with irrelevant issues.

You are not suggesting we are suppressed, are we? please, let's not   sound as if we were pathetically gagged...  You're aware of how the management tries to reach down on us... no, not reach down... but to level with us..  let's give the benefit of doubt, shall we? or did i miss your point?

as an aside, if you're trying to correct me with formal "by the book" english, you should refrain from using the word "ain't". "ain't" isn't a word - formally. but personally i recognize it as being acceptable in everyday conversational english.

That was my Freudian slip..

who are the right people? (the administration)

what sort of information do you suggest i ask for? (depends on what info you want)

how can i get it?  (depends again on the gravity of info you want..... but generally, having a close door conference with the administration would be most beneficial..)

as for your final question, i think i answered that above with regard to the indirect employer.

if you seek clarification or further discussion, please don't hesitate to ask during lunch or between classes. or post another needlessly long reply here. but please lets refrain from language issues.

ok.. Im sorry for that. 

"...don't we do that enough during the day? i think here the purpose of communication is a message being encoded and decoded so that both sender and receiver understand the same meaning.

True.  But there exists the realm of miscommunication if the message has not been encoded exactly what the sender intends.  The binary poles of communication consists of its signs and its meanings... Its text and its message...  It's grammar and its idea... Each one affects the other when it's imbalanced. 

let's let bygones be bygones, and let baygon kill cockroaches. 

Again, my apologies.   

alright. your motives are clear. well, its clear what you're not interested in at least. there's a plethora of things i could say in response, but the meaning would be lost on your "by the book" interpretation and i'm not interested in getting into competing for length. if you want, you can be the master of the english book. but english is a living language. rules have exceptions. the "book" was out-dated the moment it was printed. how many books have you read that break the rules? how many tv shows and movies deviate from the "book"?  i thought i was being nice by providing explanations. it makes me sad to see such a beautiful and dynamic language, capable of expressing so much, limited so unnecessarily by narrow-minded interpretation. go ahead and waste our time by posting corrections to my grammar. i have better things to do. its all so worthless anyway. i wonder if it was truly a mean creek before you fell in it. or if you believed it to be mean and so you made it such. but as you'd say, it's all open to interpretation. so go interprate, interpolate, and other words ending in "-ate", its all the same.